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Arnaldo Rocha,
who was married
to the Spiritual
Benefactor,
Meimei, was a
close friend of
the great
Brazilian
medium, Chico
Xavier. He
reveals that
Chico Xavier was
the
reincarnation of
Miss Japhet, a
medium who
worked alongside
Allan Kardec.
Arnaldo Rocha
(photo) was a
materialist and
atheist when he
married Meimei,
who went on to
become of the
best-known
workers in the
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Spiritual World
after
disincarnating
in October 1946.
He was born in Tiradentes, in
the state of
Minas Gerais, in
1922. For
sixty-four years
now Arnaldo
Rocha, a
generous, humble
and yet very
experienced
Spiritist
worker, has
worked as a
counsellor at
the Spiritist
Union of Minas
Gerais. After
Memei’s
departure, he
married Neuza
Tófani, who has
also
disincarnated.
His first
contact with
Spiritism was
during a meeting
at the home of
his brother,
Geraldo. He
never looked
back and went on
to develop a
close
relationship
with the
Doctrine and the
medium, Chico
Xavier. In his
private life,
Arnaldo Rocha
was an athlete.
He kindly agreed
to share his
thoughts and
experiences with
us in this
interview: |
What would you
like to
highlight from
all the time you
shared with
Chico Xavier?
What were the
most valuable
lessons?
I became more
tolerant and
patient, and
Chico Xavier
showed me the
beauty of the
Spiritist
Doctrine.
By being so
close to him for
so long, you
must have
learned a great
deal from the
Spiritual World…
Regardless of
what happened
around him,
Chico Xavier
kept cool, he
was a calma and
simple man. And
I’ve learned
with him to be
humble and
tolerant –
something that
has really
changed my
life.
How and when did
you become a
Spiritist?
I was an atheist
and materialist.
My siblings and
my mother were
Spiritist. They
used to invite
me to join study
groups, their
meetings, but I
wasn’t
interested. I
got married when
I was 22 and
became a widower
when I was 24.
Meimei died on
October 1st
1946. On October
11th,
I was looking
for shelter from
a storm and,
being close to
my brother’s
home – Geraldo
Benício Rocha –
I knocked on his
door. Luíza, my
sister-in-law,
opened the door
and I saw she
was getting
ready to start a
Spiritist
meeting with
some other
friends. I
immediately felt
like going away,
but Luíza was so
nice and
insisted that I
stayed. I sat
next to a woman
in her sixties,
who looked old
and wrinkly and
spoke with a
very strong
Italian accent.
After the
opening prayer,
the lights were
dimmed and the
lady next to me
entered a trance
state –
something I’d
never seen. She
displayed all
the symptoms and
signs of someone
suffering a lot,
gasping for air,
as though she
was vomiting
blood. (Meimei
disincarnated
due to a serious
lung
haemorrhage,
caused by kidney
problems.)
How did you feel
then?
I though the
whole thing was
very odd. My
brother got up
from his chair
and started
talking to that
“thing”… He
spoke soothing
words and the
unpleasant
symptoms
displayed by the
medium began to
dissipate. I
looked into the
woman’s face and
was surprised by
her new
appearance, she
looked young. My
brother
addressed the
“thing” and
asked whether
she wished to
talk to someone
in particular.
That’s when I
got really
surprised. I
could hear
clearly Meimei’s
beautiful,
melodious voice.
And she said: “I
would like to,
really,
but my lonely
one won’t
understand…”
Irma de Castro
Rocha, Meimei’s
real name, could
never pronounce
the word
really
properly.
What was the
meaning of my
lonely one
in this context?
After getting
engaged, Meimei
and I read a
Chinese book
called The
Moment in Peking.
That’s where we
found out that
Meimei in
Chinese meant
fiancé, or
fiancée,
beloved. And we
began to call
each other
Meiemi. When she
got ill, she
began to call me
the lonely
one, as she
said that she
would
disincarnate and
that I would be
alone.
What was your
reaction after
that meeting?
After all, you
didn’t believe
in Spirits then…
After the
meeting, my
brother told me
to study The
Spirits’ Book
and The
Gospel According
to Spiritism.
Did you follow
his advice?
Yes, I did. All
that was so odd
and needed to be
understood.
How were
Meimei’s final
days as an
incarnate?
In the last
three months of
her illness, her
vision
deteriorated. We
slept in
separate beds.
She used to pray
at night, saying
very often:
“Grandma
Antoninha, come
and take me
somewhere really
beautiful…” I
used to think
she wasn’t
really “all
there”, as a
result of the
intracranial
hypertension she
had and that
eventually led
to her
blindness. She
died on October
1st
1946, at around
4 in the
morning. Ten
days later, she
communicated
with me at my
brother’s house,
as I mentioned
earlier.
How about Chico
Xavier? How did
you meet?
Our first
contact was on
October 22nd,
in the same
year. I was
walking on a
street of the
state capital,
Belo Horizonte,
when I bumped
into a man,
modestly
dressed, with a
hat on and
holding a
briefcase. We
both fell on the
pavement. As I
turned down to
pick up the
briefcase and
the hat for him,
I saw this
smiling,
friendly face.
This man put his
hand on my face
gently and said:
“Our little
Princess is
here. Meimei
would be 24
today.” I got
really scared.
But how could I
know what a
clairvoyant
medium was? I
thought to
myself that all
Spiritists were
a bit mad. The
man had never
seen me, and yet
he called me
Naldinho and
spoke to me
about Meimei.
Once I recovered
from the shock,
I recognised him
as Chico Xavier
from an article
published in one
of the main
magazines at the
time. Chico
Xavier and I
then went
straight to my
brother’s house
and, through
Chico’s
mediumship,
Meimei spoke to
me for over an
hour. That was
the beginning of
my friendship
with Chico.
What else do you
know about
Meimei, apart
from is already
in the public
domain?
In the book
Entre a Terra e
o Céu (Between
Earth and
Heaven), by
the spirit,
André Luiz, on
chapter nine
there is a
passage showing
that Meimei
worked with her
grandmother,
Antoninha,
assisting
disincarnated
children. On
chapter 10,
Meimei talks to
Clarência and
André Luiz about
her duties in
the Spiritual
World and her
job assisting
the mothers who
pray for the
health of their
children, for
their recovery.
Chico Xavier
told me that
when I got
engaged to my
second wife,
Neuza Tófani,
the Spiritual
benefactor,
Emmanuel, had
revealed that
Meimei had asked
to return, to
reincarnate.
Emmanuel told
her that she
wouldn’t be able
to come back as
my wife, only as
my daughter. But
he told her off
and asked her to
stop getting
jealous of me
and focus on the
hundreds of
nurseries and
children homes
named after her,
Meimei. “How
could you
abandon your
responsibilities
just because of
a private
matter? If I am
consulted, I
will advise
against it.” She
was told to
carry on with
her work in the
Spiritual World,
to think about
the nurseries
named after her
across the
country, to
think about the
desperate
mothers praying
to her for their
children’s
health, and
Meimei accepted
it.
Arnaldo, it is
important to
talk about
reincarnation. I
read once that
you took part in
a meeting with
Chico Xavier
where it was
revealed that
the Brazilian
musician Radamés
Gnatali was the
reincarnation of
the Italian
composer
Rossini. Could
you tell us more
about that?
Chico Xavier’s
brother-in-law,
Pedro Quintão,
phoned a Tuesday
night inviting
me to go to the
town of Pedro
Leopoldo. Chico
was in his house
there, with his
great friend,
Radamés Gnatali.
We then joined
for a Spiritist
meeting, and
Emmanuel
communicated,
saying that
Radamés was the
reincarnation of
Rossini. Radamés
and Pedro
Quinhão went
back to Belo
Horizonte. I
stayed on, as
the next day was
a public
holiday. And
later I
remembered that
there are two
messages by
Rossini in Allan
Kardec’s
Posthumous
Works.
There are
rumours that
Chico Xavier was
the
reincarnation of
Allan Kardec,
but you have
said that he was
in a previous
life Miss Japhet,
a medium who
worked with
Kardec. What can
you say about
this
controversy?
There is a lot
of fantasy and
imagination
among Spiritists,
unfortunately.
All the previous
incarnations of
Chico Xavier
were as a woman
– from 3,256BC,
when he was born
as the Egyptian
princess
Hutsepsup, to
1890, when he
disincarnated in
Barcelona,
Spain. He is a
female spirit.
Only now, in his
last existence,
in the face of
the
responsibilities
he had to bear,
Chico was born
as a man. It
seems like once
a month Kardec
used to submit
the material
that was to be
published
eventually as
The Spirits Book
either to Mr
Roustan’s home
or Mr Japhet’s.
The Spirit of
Truth made the
corrections and
amendments and
finally advised
on its
publication, on
April 18th
1857.
At Mr Roustan’s,
Kardec used to
mention the
medium (C). At
Mr Japhet’s, he
mentioned her
name in full,
Ruth-Céline
Japhet.
Chico corrected
my
pronunciation,
saying the “ph”
had a “p” sound,
not an “f”
sound: “It’s
Japet!” It was a
Jewish name. I
then asked him
who Ruth Japhet
was.
What did Chico
tell you?
He replied with
a smile on his
face: “You’re
speaking to
her…”
So Chico Xavier
was contemporary
to Kardec. He
was Miss Japhet?
I heard it from
him.
What was Miss
Japhet’s real
role in Kardec’s
work?
She was a medium
and helped him
from the
beginning, when
they met at Mrs
Plainemaison’s
house. Kardec
used to get
guidance from
the spirits
through her.
Who came up with
the idea that
Chico Xavier was
the
reincarnation of
Allan Kardec?
I’ve no idea, I
don’t pay any
attention to
such silliness.
It must come
from people who
don’t know the
Spiritist
Doctrine and
come up with
such nonsense.
Do you think
there will be an
end to that
controversy?
What could put
an end to it?
In other
interviews I
give, I avoid
putting much
emphasis on
that. It belongs
to the field of
fantasy, and I
don’t pay
attention to it.
It’s all a big
diversion, which
adds nothing to
the Doctrine.
What was your
role in the
publication and
dissemination of
the work of
Chico Xavier,
who wrote in
trance hundreds
of books?
When the Meimei
Group was
founded, we
began to record
the lectures we
had at the end
of our meetings.
The spirits of
Emmanuel, Teresa
of Avila, Pedro
de Alcântara,
Dr. Camilo
Chaves and
others guided us
through
publishing two
books:
Instruções
Psicofônicas
and Vozes do
Além. When
Chico moved to
the city of
Uberaba, I gave
him about 30
messages,
already
organised and
ready for
publication, but
they got lost
and we were
never able to
publish a third
book.
And what was
your role in
Chico Xavier’s
work once he
moved to Uberaba?
I just went
there to see
him, to visit
him, nothing
else.
The Brazilian TV
network, Globo,
broadcast a
mini-series
about Chico
Xavier’s life. I
was intrigued by
some aspects of
it, as it
depicted two
very different “Chicos”.
The first one
was a simple
man, not well
dressed; with
the humble and
down to Earth
approach we
imagined Chico
had. The other
one, older,
shows a man
worried about
his looks, vain
and even
somewhat
arrogant. It’s
inconceivable
that Chico
really would
have changed
that much. What
do you think?
Neither the
series nor the
film about Chico
Xavier’s life
was made by
Spiritists.
Chico was very,
very poor. His
mother, Maria
João de Deus,
was black and
all her children
were dark
skinned or
mulattoes. Chico
Xavier in the
film was a white
man. And there
are other
mistakes. Pedro
Leopoldo, his
hometown, is
flat, but the
opening scenes
of the film show
hills, roads
going up and
down. The older
Chico in the
film comes up as
someone
self-important,
when it was
exactly the
opposite. Watch
again footage
from the famous
television
programmes he
took part on in
the early
seventies,
Pinga Fogo,
and you will see
what I am
talking about.
But there is
always room for
imagination…
And yet, do you
think the film
was important to
disseminate the
Doctrine?
Yes. Many people
who watched the
film are coming
to Spiritist
Centres to look
for more
information.
Spiritists need
to study more in
order to be able
to help those
who seek
information on
the basic
principles of
the Doctrine.
In the Spiritist
blockbuster,
Nosso Lar –
Astral City,
Emmanuel is
characterised as
an inhabitant of
that city. Is
that correct?
No, that is the
way the book was
adapted, it’s
what we call
poetic licence.
All Emmanuel did
was the preface,
the presentation
of Nosso Lar,
the book, as
well as all the
others in the
series of works
written by André
Luiz.
What is your
assessment on
the Spiritist
Movement in
Brazil? How do
you see its
future?
I believe
Spiritism is
moving forward,
even though it
depends so often
on the work of
so many
slow-moving and
pensive
Spiritists. The
future of
Spiritism will
be to enlighten
humankind to the
fact that we are
all immortal
beings. All
Spiritist must
be more aware
about The
Spirits’ Book,
the most
important of all
Spiritst books,
ignored by so
many in the
Movement.
What is the best
way, the best
approach, to
study the works
of Kardec?
For beginners,
the best books
are What is
Spiritism
and O
Principiante
Espírita (The
Spiritist
Beginner),
which will
provide the
basis for the
constant,
endless study of
The Spirits’
Book, The Gospel
According to
Spiritism, The
Medium’s Book,
Heaven and Hell,
and
Genesis. I
always say
Spiritism is not
the same as
Mediumship.
Spiritism is a
Doctrine,
Mediumship is a
tool that allows
psychic
communication.
In a nutshell,
how would you
describe Chico
Xavier and
Meimei?
They are both
people who
educated me on
the Spiritist
Doctrine. I owe
both of them so
much and I am
very grateful
for that.
Thank you very
much for this
interview.
Please share
with us your
final thoughts…
I am now 88
years old. I
work at the
Spiritist Union
of Minas Gerais
twice a week. Om
Monday’s, we
have the
systematic study
of The
Spirits’ Book.
On Wednesday’s,
I am in charge
of a group of
ten mediums who
work on spirit
attachment, or
obsession. That
makes my soul
really happy.
Let us all work
for the
dissemination of
Spiritism. It is
a gift from
Jesus. Let us
help those who
ask for
assistance. That
way, we will
receive so much
every single
day.
Author’s Note:
Click on
http://vimeo.com/9098617
to see a lecture
delivered by
Arnaldo Rocha on
October 9th
2009 –
“Chico, Diálogos
e Recordações” –
about
the much-missed
medium, Chico
Xavier.
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